The ESPC Property Show: Relocating Dubai

Paul
Oh, hello, it's Paul from the ESPC show, and today with me is Megan. It's a show with a difference because we are doing it virtually and here we are. And there's a reason for that, isn't it, Megan?

Megan
Yeah. So our guest today is from a little bit further afield than usual. We're going to be joined by Marie O'Neill, who is based out in Dubai. She's a relocation expert and she's going to be talking us through basically the process that's involved in moving to countries in the UAE and yeah, everything that you need to know about it.

Paul
Absolutely. And it's an area that we know that there's a real interest in. I mean, we did an episode on Spain, which is really well received and we thought well where next and we've heard a lot. We've had a lot of inquiries about Dubai and so we thought it'd be quite good to talk about that. So we're going to hear about Dubai, United Arab Emirates and maybe some other places.

Who knows? But yeah, this is our chat with Marie and hopefully you'll enjoy it.

Megan
OK guys. So as we mentioned in our intro, we are joined by Marie O'Neill who is co-owner and Managing Director of EER. Welcome Marie. You're going to chat to us about relocating to Dubai and all that's involved in that that process. So I wondered if first of all, you could just tell us a little bit about you and your business.

Marie
OK, great. Thank you, Megan, and thank you for having me on. Delighted to be here. So yeah, my name is Marie O'Neill. I'm the co-owner and Managing director of EER Relocation, Immigration and corporate service provider.

Head office is located in Dubai, but operating across the Middle East. We've got an office in Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Riyadh. I've been based in the Middle East for 16 years now, originally from Ireland. We offer services in UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and Oman. So basically anybody looking to relocate to the region from setting up a company to residency options and then the relocation side of either buying or renting a property, finding schools education for their children, settling in, that we can assist with all of that.

Paul
Wow. So basically, anyone that's moving there, they need to speak to you. Really. Don't you, Marie?

Marie
Exactly. And we've been doing it for 18 years. So we're well experienced and yeah, have have dealt with a wide range of clients from all over the world and different cultural backgrounds. And yeah, we're we're in an exciting location that's booming at the moment and has been for the last few years.

Paul
Yeah. Well, we're going to come to that. I mean I think let's let's dive into that. I mean we were talking, I know we've had chats previously just about the sort of we'll describe them as hotspots. I mean everything's hot out in the Emirates, isn't it?

But both climate wise and property wise, but so is is it Dubai and Abu Dhabi, would that would you say there are your two main areas that that you operate in?

Marie
Yes. So traditionally, Dubai was the hotspot in the main area and we were at head offices and we also have an office and do some work in Abu Dhabi. But well, the hotspot in the last year and I think the next 5 to 10 years to come is definitely Saudi Arabia and Riyad. But in regards to property and I suppose high net worth individuals, private clients, Dubai is definitely the hotspot at the moment. And you know, we've seen a very positive trend and a huge influx since really since after COVID. So you've, I suppose the property market here, you've 2 tiers, you have your super, you know high end deluxe side where we have private clients, high net worth individuals coming in from all over the world. And as a result of COVID and then the Russia and Ukraine crisis and the launch of a lot of new residency options here, we have clients coming from a lot of clients from Europe, UK, Russia, India, Pakistan, looking at Dubai from a real estate market, purchasing property and moving here and living here for several reasons. And you know, from a property perspective, you know it's it's a good market to invest in at the moment, but high net worth, you know, traditionally they invested here, but there's been a shift in the last two to three years and since COVID where they're actually coming and living here and using Dubai as a base and a home, OK.

Paul
That's a big show.

Marie
Yeah, several reasons. It's, you know, safety is is 1 and is coming up a lot with our clients that they're, you know, they want to move to Dubai for safety reasons from several cities around the world. The economy is very good here. You know there are lots of, you know, very positive in investment opportunities, very low level of tax. The lifestyle, you know it's got a very good lifestyle, good weather, well at least eight months of the year.

So there are a lot of positives and from, you know, property market there are a lot of deluxe high end properties available here. And in regards to, you know, square footage, what you get for your money compared to other major cities in the world like London or New York, you probably get three times the size here for the amount of money you would pay, especially in the high end deluxe side.

Paul
Wow, you're selling it Well, let me come and see you.

Marie
Yeah, I know and and look I've been here 16 years, it's A and I suppose I've just spoke there about the private client high end side, that's one side of the market and the deluxe side and you're you know you're looking at properties anything from you know £2 million up to £100 million for properties. And we recently had our most expensive penthouse sale here for £110 million on Pam Jumeirah. So that's one side in the market. But then you have your other side of the market where you have, you know, your middle class and working people, you know like myself that have come here many years ago, are new to Dubai and are purchasing properties. And you know you're you're looking at I suppose anything from £600,000 up to £2,000,000. That's kind of the average for say a 2 to 3 million villa and property prices you know have increased a lot in the last three to four years. The deluxe side, they've increased you know 40 to 80% the kind of middle class side then they've increased from 20 to 40%. You know for example I bought a villa 18 months ago and it it already has increased 20 to 25% in value. So it is a a very active and increasing in value market. But you know, if we order that crystal ball, who knows in the future And I think if you look back at Dubai and you know from a real estate perspective, it has, has, it has it's ups and downs.

The market, you know, it is very positive here. There is high demand. So we don't see the property market dropping, but you know, we don't know. And in the future it may correct a little bit, but if it does drop, there'll be 10/20%. You know, as as I mentioned earlier, you know, major cities around the world go, it's still undervalued and you get more of your money. So it will come up again. It's just a cycle that happens.

Paul
Yeah. And as you say, it's when you compare it to other capital cities, absolutely. And as you say the crime rate and everything else and and and the way the the, the the thing has changed and and as you say Saudi Arabia I think will go down a very similar route in the future.

Megan
Yeah, We've just spoken, spoken about the market, but I wonder if do you see any kind of seasonality or anything with the market over there. We've started to notice that the seasonality is kind of coming back in over here, but I wondered if that was something that you're seeing.

Marie
Yeah, well, in this part of the world where it's starting to slow down a little now obviously Christmas/New Year, but the May in the summer here, so kind of June, July, August, it does drop off a bit because a lot of people leave the Middle East, they can't really handle the 50° plus, so they get out of here. So you kind of have September to May as the the the highest, you know, season and the most active time of the year with a little drop over Christmas and then during the summer it will drop off. But you know traditionally there, it used to be more seasonal and you'd see a big drop in the summer. But the last few years it's been pretty much active, you know, throughout the year and the demand and popularity is there.

Paul
Good. So and and so talking of demand then how just in terms of something that maybe is approaching this and you know we've had people from ESPC that have I've left and have come over to Dubai but how is here to buy a property then what what is the the process over there Mary?

Marie
Yeah. So as cities go, it's actually quite quick and relatively stress free. And if you are a cash buyer and the property is not mortgaged, you can pretty much from finding a property to transfer, you can do it in one to two weeks. If you're looking for a mortgage, you're kind of looking at four to six weeks approval. And then if the property is already mortgaged with the current owner, then you're looking at really one to two months for, you know, a transfer and everything to go through.

In regards to fees, it's a 4% land department fee the buyer pays along with a 2% agency fee. So that's 6% you will pay as the buyer, the the seller doesn't pay anything. So again, as you know cities go around the world that's very competitive and it's a relatively stress free process. You know there's a, there's a, it's a very active market. So I suppose that's why it is quite streamlined here and it has improved a lot over the last five to 10 years.

And you're looking at you know mortgage rates at the moment here probably between 4 to 6% as well, which you know as other countries around the world. It's not. It's kind of a little bit below I would think The UK and the US obviously they've increased to four or five years ago you were getting mortgages for two 3%, but we all know things have changed in that regard.

Paul
Absolutely. Yeah, that that's quite right. And just in terms of mortgages, would you recommend then that somebody takes a mortgage when they're in Dubai or or or or is that something that they do from the UK or does it depend where they're ultimately going to be working?

Marie
Yeah, it depends where they're working. Like you can get expat mortgages from the UK for here, but it's a little bit harder and you may not get, you may get 60%. So here you will get 80/85% if you've been in permanent employment for a certain amount of time and you have your salary certificate and your payslips etcetera. But you know there's the the deluxe market here. There are a lot of cash buyers in, in the UAE and Dubai and I think it was something like 40% last year of transactions were cash transactions.

So globally as well, the trend for cash transactions is quite high here and that's the deluxe and mainly, but you're I suppose middle class and then it mainly would be mortgaged and anything from, yeah, 50 up to 80-85% under mortgage.

Paul
OK, brilliant. Thank you.

Megan
Well, we've kind of touched on on prices, but I I wonder if you can maybe talk us through what type of home you could get for different kind of price structures?

Marie
So you're kind of when you look at pricing here like you're looking at I suppose about £80,000 for your cheapest at  the lower end that would be say a studio, one bedroom apartment and then up to probably you know £2,000,000. That's the kind of the average area and your middle class area and you're looking at, you know if you're looking at a three to four bedroom villa in a nice community you're probably looking at £600,000 to £2,000,000 depending on you know, there is huge variety here depending on location, quality of the housing, you know the community, is it established or not. And then the distance from we call it Sheikh Zayed Rd. is the main road here and it's closest to the beach and the water. So the nearer you are to that the more premium your your, your properties would be in the higher the price as well because you know traffic has become a bit of an issue in Dubai and especially the last six months.

So there are a lot of newer developments further out in the desert you will get a lot more for your money, brand new, you know, good quality, but then you'll have your distance and your traffic to deal with. So anything near to Sheikh Zayed Rd. is a premium and they seem to be more well established areas as well with a, you know, a community established around that and obviously a higher price on that. But there is, you know, there is huge variety here, as I said, anything from £80,000 up to 2 million and then your, your, your, your deluxe and yeah is kind of, there's no end to it at the moment seeing, yeah £110 million for a property a few weeks back.

Paul
That's incredible. You know, we we celebrate the sale of 2 million. So it's it's.

Marie
I think it was. It was up there. There's still a more expensive penthouse sold in Monaco or London, but it's the top three in the world now for, yeah, property prices.

Paul
Yeah, but but as you say, first time buyers can get on the ladder, there is a, there is as you say even though it's a studio which is certainly more than you're going to get in London. And I think that from memory, I remember going to Dubai been a couple of times. Is it a time service, sort of rail service, very efficient isn't it, you know?

Marie
Yes, and it's a driverless rail system and you know it was quite limited, but they've extended that and they've plans to extend it more as well to go further out. So especially if you're living you know near Sheikh Zayed Road and a lot of the like typical apartment areas which would be the most popular? Dubai, Marina, the Palm, Downtown, everything you would have access to the the rail system. And you know taxis are quite popular here as well and not as expensive as they would say be in the UK. And everyone seems to drive in Dubai and you know, households tend to have at least two cars, so hence the traffic problems at the moment.

Paul
Yeah, I remember going for a run. Didn't see anyone. I didn't see one on the payments which is fine because often I'm in their way. So it was it was nice and yeah so in terms of areas then where would you what's the up and coming areas. I I actually we maybe we should just talk about Saudi Arabia just a little bit there, Marie.

Marie
Yeah, so the in terms of areas in Dubai for property, the up and coming areas, so I suppose look from an apartment perspective, apartment living, you know somewhere near the water is always popular like your Dubai, Marina and Jumeirah. Downtown is also very popular. It's near, it's the DIFC area which is a whole banking district and then from a villa perspective you'll be looking at Emirates Hills, Arabian Ranches. They were all the typical kind of areas, but areas that are being worked on now at the moment and kind of advanced our business Bay, Dubai Hills, you've got Arabian Ranches, two and three Jumeirah Golf Estates and then you know you have they would be the main ones, you have a lot of new ones coming up. Then further out that's you'd have obviously distance and traffic issues, but they tend to be kind of the main premium areas that people would look but and expats would have a preference in living in.

Paul
OK. And and then when we think about Saudi Arabia that you believe will become an emerging market next.

Marie
Yes. Yeah. So look, what we're seeing is we're working with a lot of corporates and global corporates that are bringing a lot of people into Riyadh at the moment. And the the Saudi government have mandated if you want to work with the government there, you have to have your regional head office based in Riyadh. So a lot of companies that were head office in Dubai are now moving their regional offices to Riyadh and we're seeing a lot of movement of staff from Dubai to Riyadh. And I think look, you know it's more from a corporate perspective at the moment and bringing in employees they're you know, building cities, building you know mega projects in Saudi Arabia and they just need the manpower and the people there to facilitate that and to get to their 2030 vision. So I think the next 5 to 10 years we'll see a lot of movement of people going in from a corporate perspective. I don't think you'll see for a long time yet. You know your private client, high net worth individuals, Dubai still has that lifestyle appeal to it. But you know Saudi Arabia is changing and changing very quickly. So who knows in the future?

Paul
Absolutely. Yeah. OK. That's great. Thank you, Marie.

Megan
Yes, speaking about the future, what would you say then is that that look for the market maybe over the next 12 months or or beyond?

Marie
Yeah, I think look if we're looking at Dubai, you know Dubai seems to always kind of you know defy global trends and has done for for many years and it's you know always launching new initiatives and from from an ecom, from the economy perspective and also from an immigration perspective, you know they've launched A 10 year golden visa which has been very popular and attracted a lot of people in because they've got security of living here for 10 years. So it is, it is very positive you know we're seeing people you know from all over the world wanting to move here even from a a remote working, you know remote nomads perspective. People are choosing to live here and work remotely for their companies. Corporates are coming here, they're expanding here. So yeah, it's I believe it's very positive that the, you know the demand is there, people are coming in, we're seeing it from a relocation company, we're seeing our corporates bring in people, we're seeing private clients come here.

So I don't see that trend changing and I think you know you know politically in the rest of the world and economies in the rest of the world you know aren't so good in, in in many countries at the moment which again Dubai is benefiting from. We're seeing you know a lot more Chinese look at the market and coming in as well and especially from the deluxe high end and we think you know 2024 could see even more of that trend. So very positive I think for the the region as a whole, Dubai from a property perspective, people coming in and Saudi you know opening up and growing and building as much as they are. I think you know, it'll just help the region in general, in general, overall in general.

Paul
OK, No, absolutely right. And again, we're not trying to encourage an exodus here, but it's a the pretty liberal taxation regime as well, isn't it really?

Marie
Yes. Well, with no income tax, we had a new corporation tax for the first time this year, 9%, which still is very low as a global standard and it was actually taken quite positively the introduction of corporation tax, it kind of, you know, aligns Dubai with the rest of the world and just gives, it gives a better image to us. But yeah, as taxes go, it's very minimal here and a nice lifestyle, nice standard of living. And really COVID was kind of the highlight of that. I think from how well it handled, you know, the situation and a lot of high net worths saw, you know, Dubai handled COVID very well and it kind of brought the spotlight on Dubai, good infrastructure, good medical facilities.

And yeah, people have been looking at it ever since. And then with unfortunate events in the rest of the world, it's it's it has become a more attractive location as well because of the economy and being very stable.

Paul
Yeah, absolutely, Marie. So if somebody is listening to the show and thinks actually I'd like more information, or they'd like to arrange an inspection or come out or just talk, are you happy to to make yourself away with Marie's?

Marie
Yeah, always. Look, we're we're always happy to have a call with somebody, answer any questions they have, give you know initial advice to them. It can be daunting, but this is our speciality. This is what we do, you know, on a daily basis. We help people move here, so we'll be very happy to talk to anyone. If they even just have a few questions they're looking to explore, maybe, yeah, always happy to have a call and and speak with them.

Paul
Brilliant. I'm sure people will find that very, very reassuring. And we know, as I say, you're connected through the relocation network with lots of global providers. So absolutely, you know, you, you know, you're stuff. So you've been there a long time. So you've seen this market, you see the change. So absolutely. Thank you.